Tuesday, August 24, 2004

I Think We're Alone Now, The Beating of our Hearts is the Only Sound

YTD: +$51824.75

I have been posting to various forums for the best part of 8 years now. All about poker. But eventually the poker content dies. RGP withered on the vine a long time ago. THM has become what I always feared it would. Finally, the last bastion of solid poker content, albeit sometimes heavily moderated, has started to slide down the slippery slope.

I really had high hopes for the new PLO forum. Initially there was some good content but it soon became clear that we were either in armchair expert territory – see post below – or we were having to explain why to raise with top trips when they are the current nuts. I recently posted a hand that I felt was really fascinating, even though I lost. I hoped it might spark off some intelligent debate. Instead it sunk like the proverbial lead balloon. Here it is again, this time with my comments:

PokerStars Game: Omaha Pot Limit ($5/$10)

Seat 1: MickTheHoon ($824.50 in chips)
Seat 2: HOT TEA ($215.50 in chips)
Seat 4: c.cris ($442 in chips)
Seat 5: ungar ($628.50 in chips)
Seat 6: luckylefty ($1456.25 in chips)
Seat 7: Foe ($2117.75 in chips)
Seat 8: Hero ($4536.90 in chips)
Seat 9: TheFelt ($947 in chips)
ungar: posts small blind $5
luckylefty: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Jd 9s Ks Th]
Foe: calls $10

Foe is loose aggressive good and a very experienced live cash player

Hero: calls $10

I would raise or even reraise with this hand in position, UTG I call

TheFelt: calls $10
MickTheHoon: calls $10
HOT TEA: calls $10
c.cris: folds
ungar: folds
luckylefty: checks

*** FLOP *** [Qh 2c Ts]
luckylefty: checks
Foe: checks
Hero: bets $50
TheFelt: folds
MickTheHoon: folds
HOT TEA: folds
luckylefty: folds
Foe: raises $150 to $200

This is a very interesting raise. My Foe knows I am loose aggressive too and he may just be trying to move out my semi-bluff. But why hasn’t he raised the pot, which would certainly be the expected play with two pair – perhaps he is looking for a reraise from me?

Hero: calls $150

I’m not a favourite over trips so I don’t want to lump it all in on the flop.

*** TURN *** [Qh 2c Ts] [Td]
Foe: bets $100

This is a beautiful bet. The foe knows that if he checks now, I will simply go dead on the hand, because I will put him on the nuts full. By betting small he could be trying to provoke me into making a raise. And yet he could also be drawing too and be looking for a cheap card!

Hero: calls $100

*** RIVER *** [Qh 2c Ts Td] [8s]
Foe: bets $500
Hero said, "im stuck"
Hero said, "gimme a clue"
Foe said, "lol"

I really was stuck. My str8 could be good. The $500 is an interesting bet because (a) its not the pot again (b) physically it looks smaller online. I would have been much more likely to call a full pot size bet. And yet my foe may know this as well and so is doing a “milk bet bluff”.

Hero: folds

In the end I decided that I could only beat a bluff or a busted draw. And that discretion is the better part of valour. But god, did I want to call!


Anonymous said...

You wish intelegent debate. No guarantees about inteligence but here are my views.

Position is very important in PLO, so just limping with good hands UTG is good strategy.

Nice draw. Betting it is probably a good approach with such big stacks. You cannot be much behind with this hand (unless you are againsta bigger wrap and twopair) so the most efficient way to play it would be going allin on flop and getting some "folding equity", but with this big stacks it's obviuosly not possible.

BDD says " Hero: calls $150
I’m not a favourite over trips so I don’t want to lump it all in on the flop."

Yes, true and more importantly if he does not fold to your reraise immediately the situation just sucks and if he rereraises you are stuck with your hand. The situation would be very diffenent if you had 1k stack and could move in with reraise.

Turn. Not much to comment here. Call and hope for a Ten I guess :-)

What if river is 9 J or K and he bets the pot/or $500?

The hand is beautiful example of good non potsize bets. Thanks.


Anonymous said...

One small point (food for thought): I don't think this hand is as good as you seem to suggest. While it can hit a lot of flops pretty hard, it rarely hits the flop so hard that someone else who hit the same flop hard is in big trouble. Cryptic? Note that you flopped what is basically your best possible straight draw, yet still half your straight outs aren't to the nuts. What if a Jack comes on the turn and your opp pots again? This is another reason I "consider" re-raising the flop. (I obviously still play this hand in most spots, of course.)


Anonymous said...

Hi , Thx for your blog , its good reading . Would you mind telling me the link for the mentioned only remaining decent pot limit omaha forum , and also what omaha books that you have read REALLY helped your game , what did you think of " Stewart Reuben: How Good is your Pot-Limit Omaha? "
Thanks in advance Andy .

Big Dave D said...

Aksu - if a K comes on the river I call...if its another boat card I think for an age and 90% call.

P - Pete? The reason for not reraising is clear - with us both having big stacks my allin equity is non-existent and at best I am a tiny favourite. LIke a lot of PLO hands, it looked like a monster until I was raised :-)

Andy - The plo forum is at twoplustwo.com. All the plo books by Ciaffone and Reuben are worth a read. It depends on where you are in your development as to which is the most useful, but certainly it wouldnt be money wasted to get them all.

Sloejack said...

I know it was a remake, but with the subject the first one that comes to mind is Tiffany. Wow I had such a crush on her when I was... younger. :) Anyway someone else in the blogging community mentioned your blog with regards to Omaha and since it's something I've only dabbled in I thought I would come say hi and eavesdrop. Thanks for writing.

Ignatious said...

i hope the last person worth a damn on RGP turns out the lights when they leave. it's simply a joke.