Friday, February 18, 2005

Holdem Hating...Interlude

YTD: +$22858.90

I did give another Holdem tourney a spin..the 10+1 rebuy on Stars. It was OK. I played more ABC poker and things worked out well-ish. 73rd out of 557. But again it was the same old same old. I got bored. These things just take too damn long. And then I start looking at the prize list and realise that unless I come at least 3rd or 4th it's barely worth winning. So then exasperation adds to the boredom.

However I do recognise that this is where a lot of the money is today online so I probably do have to persevere. Maybe I should play the Stars every week and look at the daily large comps on Party. Undecided.

Still prefer cash games tho :-)

18 comments:

Andy_Ward said...

Hi Dave,

Looking at your YTD I am surprised to see you playing $10 Rebuy tournaments :-). Still they say a change is as good as a rest ! A few thoughts :

Rebuy tournaments are a double-edged sword. They attract bad players, who play even worse during the rebuy stage, and allow you to amass more chips (even without playing a hand, with the rebuy and addon). But they do take longer, and once a couple of nutters get going you have no play during the rebuy stage other than wait for a premium hand. Per tournament, a $10 rebuy is going to be better than say a $30 freezeout - per hour, I'm not sure.

As you have realised, you can't make a decent hourly in these things without finishing top three a few times. With 500 runners, you need to play an absolute shedload of tournaments to be able to "eat your value".

It's worth shopping around all the sites to look for the added money / guarantees not met. At this point I'm not going to be like the guy on the forum who says "This tournament isn't going to make the guarantee ! I'm already in - why don't you all come along too ! Oh, now it has made the guarantee". I know, they're only trying to help :-). Email me if you like or just have a look around at some of the other sites.

Finally, I have come to realise that it's just not worth playing the smaller comps - you just don't get the return per hour. I would only play less than $100 freezeout / $30 rebuy if there's money added.

And I have to say that if I was making $20K in six weeks in other games, I'd stick with them :-)

Andy.

Aksu said...

Hi,

Some random thoughts.

I do not think that money is in tournaments. It may be moving a bit to that direction, but it's still firmly in limit holdem and in increasing degree in nolimit holdem cash games. (I'm talking about net now).

Tournament's do not work that well in cyberspace. Tournaments have beginning and end, place and time, winner and bubbleboy. These things work much better in live enviroment. For example there have not been yet a two day online tourny. Certainly there is a need for it, but there are some problems.

On another hand for cash game cyberspace is great. No beginning, no end, no place, no time, just the game and weekly serverupdates.

hmmm, not sure if I make sense here... well I'll post it anyway and use my 2nd language extraout to excape if necessary.

Aksu

Big Dave D said...

Andy,

Of course you are right. I'm not really sure why I bothered with the 10 rebuy either...I guess I wanted to try a more ABC style. Its just that I cant help this nagging feeling that Im missing out on money somewhere. As Aksu pointed out - am I becoming his Mason Malmuth to his David Sklansky - the real money online is still in holdem ring games. The NL ring game scene looks insane. But as Aksu/Sklansky has pointed out to me b4, despite all my protestations, I do play for "fun"...and PLO is fun for me, NL isnt.

So it seems a way to get hold of this "free" money, in a fashion I still can try and enjoy, is certainly live big tourneys and bigger Net tourneys. And from what I can see, the style of live is very nearly the same as online now anyway. I guess a love of the game for itself is what I'm missing at the moment and that's what I'm trying to get back. Maybe just stick to the big NL comps and se if I can get the fires a burning again.

gl

Dave

Big Dave D said...

Aksu/Sklansky,

I've kinda answered your comment in the 1 to Andy...I just wanted to mention that I loved the line "use my 2nd language extraout" ;-)

Dave

Anonymous said...

Hi Big Dave,
I prefer the cash games as well. Haven't played a tournament in over a month. The hold'em tournaments require too much time and it is demoralizing to be knocked out without cashing.

Anonymous said...

Big Dave,
You are the King of the Poker Bloggers. Your insights and analytical approach to playing these games has really got me thinking about what I have to do to improve my game.
My game of choice is Stud hi/lo, but I want to start playing more Omaha8/b, both limit and pot limit.
Congratulations on your recent hot rush, and keep up the good work.

Big Dave D said...

Anon,

Tx for the kind words...I do my best!

Other anon...I agree, although most tourney guys can cope with this mentally, as did I. Its not so much not cashing, as it feels like a waste of time, which, when u think about it, is a poker player's prime resource.

gl

dd

Milkybarkid said...

I have the same thoughts on NL Holdem tourneys online. I have played probably a handful and have got quite far but not cashed and i feel like i have just wasted 5-6 hours. I guess i sometimes wonder the same thing about Live tournaments.... sometimes i wander whether i should stick to the cash games which i make money at but the temptation of getting one big result which would effectively earn me more than 50 successful cash game results is too appealing. I guess i need to play them for a few years before i find out if i can make them profitable for me.

Anonymous said...

Dave,

If you are playing on Stars, I suggest you play the $10 rebuy turbo satellites on Sunday. There are 3 of them, they get 500 entrants, and they give away about 80 seats. You can use the $215T in any tournament. I have found that on average, I spend about $100 cash to get each $215T.

If you store up the T$, you can use them for whatever tourney you feel like, whenever you want a break from live play.

Additionally, the turbo sats for this Sunday's $500 tournament are $20 plus rebuys. There have been weekends when I've spent $100, won 2 satellites for $1060T, and sold the T$ for $1000 cash. In fact this is the only way I can win money on Stars.

Roswell

ChrisV said...

Hi Dave,

Play SNGs. They don't have the monotony of ring game NL and the amount of money floating around is enormous. I made $55K last year in just 6 months and my YTD this year is something like 10K.

Big Dave D said...

Milky,

Youre pocketsare deeper than mine when it comes to B&M tourneys....I want to play...im just to scared :(

gl

Dave

Big Dave D said...

Roswell,

I agree, I ve said for some time that the mtt sats are great value. Some of the play on the bubble is so bizarre I dont know whether to laff or cry!

gl

dd

Big Dave D said...

Chris V,

To be frank, I think SNGs are even more boring...as I understand it, correct strategy is mostly not playing for 4 rounds! And by my reckoning, to get a good hourly rate you would have to play 4-5 of them all the time at the 100 level - assuming that the 200 guys actually have a clue :-( It must be a monster drag. Its like those guys who multitable N tables of 15-30 limit...gl and Im sure its good money, but the grind is too much!

gl

dd

ChrisV said...

Yeah, tightness is mandatory in the first few rounds, but so what? What I like about SNGs is that the situations aren't always the same. Your decisions hinge on a number of factors that aren't generally found in big bet cash games (or not to the same extent) - blind size, your stack size, their stack sizes, how many players are left, etc.

I do 4 table them - I don't see what the problem with that is either. Generally I can watch TV as well as 4 table. Sometimes I have to pause what I'm watching to take care of things if more than one tourney hits the bubble at once.

Most $200 players have some kind of clue, but there are enough that don't to make it worthwhile. Imagine two of the players in the game are total dead money and the rest are just as good as you. After rake that's $25 for everyone. In real life, there's usually one or two who have little chance, and several of the rest are slightly worse than you. My hourly rate 4 tabling the $200's is about $120-130/hr

Milkybarkid said...

Dave

You should come down to London to play in the Hi/Lo Omaha tournament at the end of March or the grand Omaha freezeout later in the week.

Big Dave D said...

Ben,

The thought of spunking off half a months "wages" in a Omaha comp makes me want to puke in my boots. I just dont play enuff big comps to justify such big blips.

Big Dave D said...

Chris,

Tx for the more detailed response. I dont doubt that there is good money in SNGs...I did play a bunch of them last year, mostly poorly, and I did the usual research on 2+2 and its clear that they are prolly the best profit/risk ratio investment on the net. But its still too much playing by rote.

Sure situations arise that dont happen in cash games, and the big edge that skilled players like you have is the ability to speed through the gears as the complexion of the game changes. But this doesnt, in itself make for complicated situations, just an ability to be flexible. So WTF difference does it make?

Well, Ive finally grasped the nettle and decided that I *do* play for fun too. And playing a big stack in a PLO game is going to cause more intersting experiences than the late stages of a Party SNG. And I still make good money!

gl

dd

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