Thursday, September 09, 2004

Do As I Say Not Do As I Do

YTD: +$57930.03

Whilst I was criticising Rolf S going all-in with KK before the flop in PLO, I was very aware that I had made a very similar play myself. However in this case, the play was very clear and I was also aware that this was going to be a play with a lot of luck involved in its outcome:

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $10 BB (8 handed)

Button ($845)
SB ($388)
BB ($1678)
UTG ($661.75)
UTG+1 ($803)
MP1 ($541)
Hero ($2488)
CO ($1094)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Ks, 8s, Kh, Ac.

3 folds, Hero raises to $30, CO calls $30, Button calls $30, SB raises to $160, 1 fold, Hero raises to $550, CO calls $520, Button folds, SB calls $228 (All-In).

Preflop the action is straightforward. The SB had started reraising me with less than AA type values as he had noticed that my initial raising standards were lowish, at least in position. The extra A in my hand also gives me a touch more security that he doesn't have the AA. On this basis, my equity in the hand will be significantly improved if I can get CO to pass, as I may then win the pot unimproved. As he has shown no strength whatsoever, this further makes a reraise the better play.

Flop: ($1528) 6d, 2s, 9d (3 players, 1 all-in)

When CO called the big raise cold I basically put him on one of two hands. Either two pairs, or a 4 card straightening hand. Basically my strategy was that unless the flop comes three cards in sequence, I will bet the remainder.

The flop itself is fairly disasterous. As a 9876 kind of hand was a very likely holding, this flop may have hit him pretty hard. But if I check-called, I would be getting 4 to 1 on his bet, and even if he has the armageddon which is 9876 with diamonds, I'm only a 5.5 to 1 dog. Against "just" two pair and a str8 draw, i would be getting the right price to call. So perhaps betting is better? Betting may make him pass hands that he should probably call, especially as he may be worried about the flush draw. Also if he has the two pair hand, I may be a very big favourite and I wouldn't want to give him a free card to hit on the turn.

Hero bets $1525
, CO calls $544 (All-In).

Turn: ($3597) 5h (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($3597) Ah (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $3597
Results below:

SB has Qc Ts Kd As (one pair, aces).

Hero has Ks 8s Kh Ac (one pair, aces).

CO has 9c Th Jc Qd (one pair, nines).

Outcome: Hero wins $2995. SB wins $602.

Not only was a very lucky to win this hand the strange thing is that no one played their hand wrong. The SB with a small stack is entitled to make a move against a loose player and the CO, suspecting that we both have AA is getting great value.

Often it can be the case in PLO that all the participants play correctly and the Gods of Poker reward and punish as they see fit. This hand they were kind.


Mr Mediocre said...

Hey Dave,

I am a bit of an avid reader of your blog. Its great to get a genuine insight into a high stakes players game, as opposed to the fog the big names put out.

You have got me playing small stakes PLO and it is fantastic, ambush poker at its finest. Most of the opposition play it like its holdem, which is nice!
Currently +$486 this week playing 50c/$1 PLO :-)
a lot of which is on the back of your comments.

I am still a bit loose though, but I think that might be helping my results.

There is one particular hand I played that I would like your thoughts on, I will post it on my blog, take a look if you get a chance.

Keep it coming Dave, the fish are listening and some are learning too (I hope).

Anonymous said...


I have been reading your blog for a while now, and some of your insight I feel has improved my game. Thank you for that. I do however have a couple questions I hope you could touch on in some future posts.

What do you think the main difference in playing style should be for tournament and cash games. (Hold em or omaha)

Also, I am just starting to track my statistics of play. What data should I track? I currently have the location played, buy in, result type of game played (omaha holdem etc tourney non tourney), and if tournament what place of how many entrants. Any advice would be appreciated.


Big Dave D said...

Mr Mediocore,

Thanks for the kind words. I don't really consider myself a high limit player, rather a middle limit player who is on a hell of a rush. One of the advantages of good stat keeping is that you get a good feel for what your win rates should be and I *know* that my current win rate for the 5-10 game on Stars is unsustainable. But its nice while it lasts :-) I've commented on your hand fwiw.

Keep on coming...more plo very soon!


Big Dave D said...


Tourney vs cash is a big topic, and not one I'm sure I'm qualified to comment on anymore. I used to be considered a good tourny player, albeit mostly for small stakes. However my game has not transitioned well to the Net. I would make the point that for a good PLO and PLO8b player there is a huge overlay in playing these games. My record in them used to be huge, with an ROI in the 100s of percents, its just that they dont pay out enough now for them to be a worthwhile investment vs the PLO 5-10. So my advice would be to play tight and play those games.

In terms of stats, I use a fairly complex, evolved spreadsheet which has been 8 years in the brewing. For cash games I measure individual games, but also aggregate this info so I can also look at it from a site perspective. This means each game has its own sheet in a workbook, as does each site. I also track how i am doing each month and overall. So for each game sheet I track: date, site, size of blinds, time played, win/loss $. I also keep a qualitive "played good or bad?" indicator. I then use all this info to measure all my hourly win rates, % sessions won, and a gross amount/hourly win rate for that particular game overall and for the month. I also track my SD and generate a purdy graph :-)

Tourneys are more simple. Date, venue, game type, buyin, number of entrants, my position and my return. I then track raw profit, % in the money and ROI. I could probably be a lot cleverer with this but as I dont play a lot of them, there isnt a big need.

Hope this helps.